[Robert Taylor]

The following link brings to light some problems related to replacing stock springs with ones that are shorter .

Form the link below :





So, there are three huge drawbacks to this design. All are present to some degree on a factory car that rides on its bump stops, but all get much worse as bump travel is reduced via lowering springs.

• Harsh initial impact on bumps, even small ones
• Ride height raises over bumps, creating unpredictability
• Potential for faster wear on the chassis, bushings, tires, and dampers

Because bump stops are designed to be very progressive, the behavior of a car drastically changes if a person replaces the factory springs with springs that lower the vehicle's ride height. This is because lowering springs don't just put the car onto the bump stops at ride height- they put the bump stops past their initial soft phase.

http://buildafastercar.com/tech/Bump...wering-Springs

[Nfchaos2003]

You know this whole "I dont like my car getting lowered" bs is starting to get old. You're not going to change anyone's opinion about lowering their car, especially with the reasons, or thereby lack of, you have stated. I can tell you that my car, a 2001 Prelude Base with Progressive Titanium springs lower my car 1.7in, coupled with performance struts, lowers it ATLEAST another .8 and somehow, my ride is actually better than it was before. Not to mention, it handles great and provides alot more grip than my stock setup. Please, shut up.

[MustardCat]

Only excessively lowered cars are riding on their bump stops, most aren't. When you replace the shocks with performance versions like your always recommended to when installing lowering springs, the new ones typically have a shortened body/altered piston length or different bump stop to avoid this problem.

Plus if you get a full coilover setup it's not even an issue because lowering the ride height has no effect on shock travel.



A moderately lowered car with proper components doesn't have any of the problems you keep telling us it does. Your describing a "slammed" car, which is only for looks.

[Robert Taylor]

Originally Posted by MustardCat

Only excessively lowered cars are riding on their bump stops, most aren't. When you replace the shocks with performance versions like your always recommended to when installing lowering springs, the new ones typically have a shortened body/altered piston length or different bump stop to avoid this problem.


A moderately lowered car with proper components doesn't have any of the problems you keep telling us it does. Your describing a "slammed" car, which is only for looks.

It sounds like by modifying various components your able to make the shock work , all be it , with many compromises that may limit its performance benefit . The truth is if you change the spring length then the entire suspension system needs to be redesigned and such an endeavor is beyond the scope of the average back yard mechanic . What is going on here is commonly referred to as the hit and mis school of engineering .

[98vtec]

but that is what makes research and development so much fun!!!! If it doesnt work, sell it and try something else. The whole fun part is finding the combination that works. Im for damn sure not an engineer by school, but i for damn sure made myself my own engineering degree called the Blakes never give up until you find the right shit engineering degree.

Look at the bright side, at least you havent put bullshit parts on your car and i respect you for that. And im sure if you did infact modify your car, you wouldnt put ebay parts, replicated taiwan parts or any parts that received zero thought and weren't just thrown onto the market for kids who want a big list of parts that dont function together so they can look cool on the internet.

[Blue01]

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

The truth is if you change the spring length then the entire suspension system needs to be redesigned and such an endeavor is beyond the scope of the average back yard mechanic.

No, not really.

You've demonstrated a real lack of knowledge about how suspensions work. Yes, lowering a car reduces bump travel and places it closer to bump limiters of varying sorts. It places it somewhere else in it's camber curve. These things are not new or secret. In other news, holy shit, the earth is round.

[MustardCat]

Originally Posted by Robert Taylor

The truth is if you change the spring length then the entire suspension system needs to be redesigned and such an endeavor is beyond the scope of the average back yard mechanic. What is going on here is commonly referred to as the hit and mis school of engineering .

No it does not. You only think this because you have a very poor understanding of how the suspension works.

In the last thread you posted a magazine article from the 80's about a 2G lude and used one paragraph from it to try and prove the stock suspension is perfect. But since you don't actually have a good understanding of car suspensions you did not know that the article was incorrect.

Now you have posted a link to an article about a subaru strut suspension and how putting lowering springs on a stock strut reduces bump travel and can negatively affect handling. We already know this - this is not news.

Please tell us how putting reasonable lowering springs (1.0-1.5") and good dampers (koni) on a Prelude ruins the handling. Be specific.



Can everyone who is just in the thread to bash and throw personal insults at Robert please SHUT THE FUCK UP? This is not the off-topic section! Mods please delete all these useless posts I would really like to have a discussion that is not filled with pages of dumbass posts... seriously this shit is getting out of hand if you have a problem with Robert PM him or whine about it somewhere else.

[danny_d19]

keep the discussion on topic please (in response to the posts that I have deleted)

[jhall250]

Another interesting thing I'm surprised RT hasn't posted is bumpsteer. The new Impreza's are notorious for horrible bumpsteer, another thing intentionally designed into most cars to keep the "safe." Bumpsteer is NOT a good thing in any case and actually gets better as you put stiffer springs on a car because you get less travel relative to the stock springs on a given bump. On my SH the thing, from stock height has almost 5mm of toe-out built into the front suspension and that is considered pretty good compared to the industry standard.

There are SO many compromised made when designing car suspension that are put in place. I'll list the ideal things you want for a race car and put why on stock designs they aren't ideal

-Negative camber
--Most cars run zero in the front for good braking and tire wear

-Straight (or as close as possible) toe curve
--As mentioned above, most cars intentionally have toe out in the front to mask sudden jerks of the wheel and make them a little less raw than not having a change. This numbs aggressive steering inputs which makes the car sluggish to a professional.

-Caster, and lots of it
--Caster gains you dynamic negative camber while cornering but most cars don't have enough to be ideal for racing because caster increases steering effort and makes the car want to "dart" into corners.

The thing is Robert, car manufacturers build cars to make money, law suits take money away. To avoid law suits cars company design cars to be safe by not only adding more air bags that most people thought were human possible but also DETUNING otherwise perfect suspension. The average idiot can't handle ideal suspension, and when they crashed they would blame the car, sue, and most likely win because the car's design was "unsafe." There is far more potential to be had modified over stock with any generation of Prelude. You don't have to take our words for it either, take your car to any really sporting event, autox or a track day, and watch your ass get worked by cars that have been modified from stock. You speak from a realm of theory, mostly incorrect, that doesn't cut it in the real world.